Designer’s Guide Community

neoflash

Community Fellow

Offline

Mixed-Signal
Designer

Posts: 397

2nd order SDM followed by sinc2 decimation filter?
Aug 04^th, 2017, 11:36am

This attached diagram shows a sensing scheme that uses 2nd order sigma delta modulator followed by a second order sinc decimation filter.

In this configuration, the out of band quantization noise will be flat instead of rolling off in higher frequency.

In other words, the post filter noise spectrum will be approximately white and quite some noise will alias back.

I think it should be much easier to use 3rd order sinc filter. However, this paper made a different choice made me think that maybe this wide band noise is not a problem when OSR is high enough?

Regards,
Neo

Back to top

sinc2.png

IP Logged

Berti-2

Junior Member

Offline

Posts: 12

Re: 2nd order SDM followed by sinc2 decimation filter?
Reply #1 - Aug 7^th, 2017, 4:51am

The frequency-response is sinc is sin(x)/x-like. For large OSR, the anti-aliasing filtering therefore becomes more efficient. Those filters are typically implemented as CIC filters.

I guess that's the reason why a second order filter is sufficient in this case.
(Your assumption that the quantization noise will be flat is consequently not true).

Cheers

Back to top

IP Logged

neoflash

Community Fellow

Offline

Mixed-Signal
Designer

Posts: 397

Re: 2nd order SDM followed by sinc2 decimation filter?
Reply #2 - Aug 7^th, 2017, 3:28pm

The noise shaped of the 2nd order modulator will be 40dB/dec.

It then appears to me that a sinc-2 filter will not be sufficient to suppress the shaped noise.

Berti-2 wrote on Aug 7^th, 2017, 4:51am:

The frequency-response is sinc is sin(x)/x-like. For large OSR, the anti-aliasing filtering therefore becomes more efficient. Those filters are typically implemented as CIC filters.

I guess that's the reason why a second order filter is sufficient in this case.
(Your assumption that the quantization noise will be flat is consequently not true).

Cheers

Back to top

IP Logged

Berti-2

Junior Member

Offline

Posts: 12

Re: 2nd order SDM followed by sinc2 decimation filter?
Reply #3 - Aug 8^th, 2017, 4:03am

If the OSR is large enough (>50), I would expect a sinc-2 filter being sufficient (because of the sin(x)/x characteristic, as I wrote in the previous post).

But you can write a simple Matlab script to check whether the decimation filtering is sufficient for a given OSR ... if you don't believe me. ;)

Back to top

IP Logged

neoflash

Community Fellow

Offline

Mixed-Signal
Designer

Posts: 397

Re: 2nd order SDM followed by sinc2 decimation filter?
Reply #4 - Aug 11^th, 2017, 9:17pm

I believe you.

But that approach of high osr doesn't seem to be an economic choice.

A sinc3 with much lower OSR will do the job better, isn't it a lower cost way?

Berti-2 wrote on Aug 8^th, 2017, 4:03am:

If the OSR is large enough (>50), I would expect a sinc-2 filter being sufficient (because of the sin(x)/x characteristic, as I wrote in the previous post).

But you can write a simple Matlab script to check whether the decimation filtering is sufficient for a given OSR ... if you don't believe me. �;)

Back to top

IP Logged

nrk1 Community Member Offline Posts: 81	Re: 2nd order SDM followed by sinc2 decimation filter? Reply #5 - Aug 15^th, 2017, 3:11am Neoflash, Can you share the reference?
Back to top	IP Logged

Berti-2 Junior Member Offline Posts: 12	Re: 2nd order SDM followed by sinc2 decimation filter? Reply #6 - Aug 17^th, 2017, 4:25am Hi neon-flash, You need to consider the combination of analog modulator and decimation filter. The chosen OSR is often dictated by the analog part (modulator) and not the decimation filter.
Back to top	IP Logged

neoflash

Community Fellow

Offline

Mixed-Signal
Designer

Posts: 397

Re: 2nd order SDM followed by sinc2 decimation filter?
Reply #7 - Aug 17^th, 2017, 4:19pm

nrk1 wrote on Aug 15^th, 2017, 3:11am:

Neoflash, Can you share the reference?

It is this paper. ISSCC-2017

9.7 A 6.9mW 120fps 28�50 capacitive touch sensor with 41.7dB SNR for 1mm stylus using current-driven ΔΣ ADCs
Hyunseok Hwang ; Hyeyeon Lee ; Hongchae Kim ; Youngcheol Chae
Publication Year: 2017, Page(s):170 - 171

Back to top

IP Logged

Frank_Heart Junior Member Offline Posts: 29	Re: 2nd order SDM followed by sinc2 decimation filter? Reply #8 - Nov 18^th, 2017, 11:39pm Hi, Neo, Sinc3 would give better noise reduction, but more attenuation on input signal as well. People may care about signal loss more when noise reduction would not give more benefits. -Frank
Back to top	IP Logged