The Designer's Guide Community
Forum
Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register. Please follow the Forum guidelines.
Apr 18th, 2024, 10:19am
Pages: 1
Send Topic Print
confusion about phase noise (Read 603 times)
dog1
Community Member
***
Offline



Posts: 52

confusion about phase noise
Sep 12th, 2016, 2:57am
 
Hello everyone,

I have a confusion about the basics of phase noise.

I am reading the Razavi's book RF Microelectronics, 2nd Edition. And in Chapter 8.7.3, it says that a for noise around a oscillatory waveform, half of the energy goes into AM side band while the other goes into PM sideband. I think the derivation there also apply to any periodical waveform with dominant 1st harmonic, since it only require a noise around w0. This is confusing. Does this mean that for phase noise simulation of periodical signal, I can always just simulate the total noise spectrum around w0, and divide it by two, regardless of the waveform of the periodical signal and what kind of noise there is? Then why do we need "modulated" type as cadence Spectrum pnoise simulation option? Why don't we just always use "source" type? I also remember that for hard switching circuit, the noise power is mostly PM, but then this contradicts my understanding of the previous statement.

From my understanding, the contradiction seems to arose from the fact that the previous statement is made without consideration for the phase correlation between noise slots in the spectrum. Is that correct?


Thanks

CHEN
Back to top
 
 
View Profile   IP Logged
Ken Kundert
Global Moderator
*****
Offline



Posts: 2384
Silicon Valley
Re: confusion about phase noise
Reply #1 - Sep 12th, 2016, 11:05am
 
Adding stationary noise to a sinusoid results in a signal with equal amounts or AM and PM noise. This is described in An Introduction to Cyclostationary Noise. However, that is not the situation in an oscillator. All practical oscillators have some mechanism that controls their output amplitude, and this mechanism acts to suppress any AM component in the noise. Thus, noise in an oscillators is almost purely phase modulated.

Generally when simulating phase noise in oscillators, you do use the 'sources' method, which computes the time-average noise. There is no need to understand the amount of AM and PM noise separately because the AM component is generally negligible.

The 'modulated' method of computing noise is usually only used on driven circuits, such as modulators.

-Ken
Back to top
 
 
View Profile WWW   IP Logged
dog1
Community Member
***
Offline



Posts: 52

Re: confusion about phase noise
Reply #2 - Sep 19th, 2016, 2:12pm
 
Hello Ken,

Thanks very much for your fast reply. It is now clearer to me.

BR

CHEN Smiley
Back to top
 
 
View Profile   IP Logged
Pages: 1
Send Topic Print
Copyright 2002-2024 Designer’s Guide Consulting, Inc. Designer’s Guide® is a registered trademark of Designer’s Guide Consulting, Inc. All rights reserved. Send comments or questions to editor@designers-guide.org. Consider submitting a paper or model.