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PSS results not matching with transient (Read 1775 times)
nazgul
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PSS results not matching with transient
Mar 1st, 2015, 11:38pm
 
Hi guys,

I am using the following Cadence Version
"sub-version  IC6.1.6-64b.500.3"

I was simulating an RF CMOS power amplifier intended for WLAN applications. It's a typical cascode architecture with both input and output interfaced to two different baluns. Both the baluns were designed using VeloceRF tool and the corresponding output spice model was used in my simulation. With the above set-up, I tried running PSS and transient analysis. PSS is converging but the result was not matching with transient. I tried decreasing the tolerance of PSS, even then I am facing the same issue.
What could be the reason for this mismatch??
Is it because of the balun or something else.
Normally which analysis is reliable PSS or transient??
If you are looking for any intrinsic details, Please comment down below

regards,
nazgul
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« Last Edit: Mar 02nd, 2015, 1:46am by nazgul »  
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sheldon
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Re: PSS results not matching with transient
Reply #1 - Mar 3rd, 2015, 3:05am
 
Nazgul,

 One note, ICXYX is the environment version number and
unrelated to the simulator version. Spectre RF is in the MMSIM
release stream.

  Here some ideas to try:

1) You could try Harmonic Balance and see what the results are

2) Starting with a sine wave to test the circuit, does it reach
  steady state by the end of the transient simulation?
  if the transient simulation has not settled then allowing more time
  to settle may resolve the issue

3) If you tighten the transient tolerances do the result match the
   PSS results better?

                                                                           Sheldon
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nazgul
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Re: PSS results not matching with transient
Reply #2 - Mar 4th, 2015, 8:46pm
 
Hi Sheldon,

Thanks for the reply.. Smiley
How to find out which spectreRF version I am using??
1.During my initial stages of design I have used harmonic balance, which  later turned out to be inaccurate. I did some digging and found out PSS is more accurate than HB.
I want to mention one more observation at this point, When I was operating my PA at slightly lower input powers all the results were matching. The issue is rising only, when I was operating at slightly higher powers. There is a good of chance of my PA going into non-linear region at higher powers. Could it possibly be the reason??
2. When I tried to decrease the tolerance in PSS, the simulation is not converging. I don't know why this is happening.

regards,
nazgul

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« Last Edit: Mar 4th, 2015, 10:18pm by nazgul »  
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Ken Kundert
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Re: PSS results not matching with transient
Reply #3 - Mar 5th, 2015, 12:02pm
 
SpectreRF is simply part of Spectre. To find out Spectre's version, use 'spectre -h', or 'spectre -V' or 'spectre -W'.

Many people cause problems for themselves by using absurdly tight tolerance settings. If you are using absurdly tight tolerance settings, stop. If you are not, and PSS does not converge despite using a reasonable tstab, then your circuit might not be periodic.

If it is a driven circuit, use strobing at the clock frequency and perform a long transient analysis. If the strobed waveforms become constant valued, then your circuit is periodic and SpectreRF should work. Use the settling time to determine a reasonable value of tstab. If they do not become constant valued, then you need to determine why your circuit is not periodic. I recommend that you observe the power supply currents when running this test.

-Ken
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Frank Wiedmann
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Re: PSS results not matching with transient
Reply #4 - Mar 6th, 2015, 1:17am
 
The Spectre version is also reported in the first lines of the Spectre log file (usually named spectre.out). Starting with MMSIM 14.1, Spectre can determine a suitable tstab value automatically when you set autotstab=yes (see http://support.cadence.com/wps/mypoc/cos?uri=deeplinkmin:ViewSolution;solutionNu...).
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nazgul
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Re: PSS results not matching with transient
Reply #5 - Mar 9th, 2015, 8:19am
 
Hi Ken,

Thank you for the reply..
The reason why I went with tight tolerances was, at normal tolerances my PSS results were not matching with transient results. I thought slightly tightening my tolerances will help me, but that didn't help me either.
During the normal transient I can see that my circuit is periodic, But the output is not a proper sine wave. Its slightly irregular with lot of higher harmonics, but its periodic.

regards,
nazgul
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Ken Kundert
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Re: PSS results not matching with transient
Reply #6 - Mar 9th, 2015, 4:59pm
 
Quote:
If it is a driven circuit, use strobing at the clock frequency and perform a long transient analysis. If the strobed waveforms become constant valued, then your circuit is periodic and SpectreRF should work. Use the settling time to determine a reasonable value of tstab. If they do not become constant valued, then you need to determine why your circuit is not periodic. I recommend that you observe the power supply currents when running this test.
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