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slb2010

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ADS2009 Harmonic Balance.
Feb 03^rd, 2010, 1:58am

Dear all,

I am simulation a circuit with Circuit Envelope simulator in ADS, but is taking too long time.
I would like to control the tolerance to which the harmonic balance simulator achieves convergence.
I know that I will loose accuracy, but I am willing to make that trade-off.
Is the parameter "IV_RelTol" at Circuit Envelope Display tab the one? If so, or if not do you know the used value?

Thank you and regards

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pancho_hideboo

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Re: ADS2009 Harmonic Balance.
Reply #1 - Feb 3^rd, 2010, 2:03am

Before moving to time variable HB(=Envelope), show me status of static time HB.

Is it quickly converged ?

Show me your netlist regarding analysis statement, signal source and accuracy setting.

About netlist, see http://www.designers-guide.org/Forum/YaBB.pl?num=1262828862/18#18

BTW, in Agilent Envelope Analysis of both ADSsim and GoldenGate, Tstep for envelope is very important factor.
How do you choose this Tstep ?

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slb2010

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Re: ADS2009 Harmonic Balance.
Reply #2 - Feb 3^rd, 2010, 2:15am

Hi,

I already have the simulation up and running. The problem is that it takes too long time and I do not know if tolerance parameter for convergence is too tight or not.
I am using circuit envelope because I do have an carrier and an envelope around it (frequency domain).
As I am using squared signals multiplication, the inverse of the time step is slightly above the envelope BW, but it does not overlap.
I really need to know the tolerance parameter for convergence in HB, because for each time step the simulator decreases and increases it due to convergence problems.

Thanks

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pancho_hideboo

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Re: ADS2009 Harmonic Balance.
Reply #3 - Feb 3^rd, 2010, 2:19am

Put "OPTIONS" component and loose accuracy parameters.
Quote:

Options:Options1 �Temp=27 Tnom=27 TopologyCheck=yes ForceS_Params=yes \
V_RelTol=1e-3 �V_AbsTol=1e-6 V �I_RelTol=1e-3 I_AbsTol=1e-12 A \
GiveAllWarnings=yes MaxWarnings=10 ForceM_Params=yes \
InitialGuessAnnotation=0 TopologyCheckMessages=no

BTW, Agilent GoldenGate have Fast Envelope Mode.

On the other hand, Fast Envelope mode of ADSsim is valid only for cosimulation with Agilent Ptolemy.

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slb2010 New Member Offline Posts: 5	Re: ADS2009 Harmonic Balance. Reply #4 - Feb 3^rd, 2010, 2:45am Hi, thanks for the information. Using "OPTIONS" I changed the V and I Abs and Rel tolerances to "relaxed" and it worked for my purpose. BTW, in this case I did not need to generate the netlist, but in the future I might need. Can you please point me to a guideline? Thanks once again.
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pancho_hideboo Senior Fellow Offline Posts: 1424 Real Homeless	Re: ADS2009 Harmonic Balance. Reply #5 - Feb 3^rd, 2010, 2:47am slb2010 wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2010, 2:45am: BTW, in this case I did not need to generate the netlist, but in the future I might need. Can you please point me to a guideline? I can't understand meaning of your question. Please describe in detail with using correct terminologies.
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slb2010

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Re: ADS2009 Harmonic Balance.
Reply #6 - Feb 3^rd, 2010, 2:58am

In a previous post you asked me for the netlist:

pancho_hideboo wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2010, 2:03am:

Show me your netlist regarding analysis statement, signal source and accuracy setting.

About netlist, see http://www.designers-guide.org/Forum/YaBB.pl?num=1262828862/18#18

I was just asking if there's a way to do this. Or is just a description of the simulation setup that you were referring to?

Best regards

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pancho_hideboo

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Re: ADS2009 Harmonic Balance.
Reply #7 - Feb 3^rd, 2010, 3:19am

slb2010 wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2010, 2:58am:

In a previous post you asked me for the netlist:
pancho_hideboo wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2010, 2:03am:

Show me your netlist regarding analysis statement, signal source and accuracy setting.
About netlist, see http://www.designers-guide.org/Forum/YaBB.pl?num=1262828862/18#18

I was just asking if there's a way to do this. Or is just a description of the simulation setup that you were referring to?

It seems that your question is how to get ADSsim's netlist.
But who can understand meaning of your question from following your poor description ?
slb2010 wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2010, 2:45am:

BTW, in this case I did not need to generate the netlist,
but in the future I might need.
Can you please point me to a guideline?

Again always describe correctly, although this is not true for only you.

ADSsim's netlist exists as "netlist.log" in project directory.
Basically there are three methods to get netlist in Agilent ADS.
Here I excluded method in RFDE.

(1) Run ADSsim simulation

(2) Use Dynamic Link Menu ; DynamicLink > Top-level Design Netlist
http://edocs.soco.agilent.com/display/ads2009/Netlisting%2C+Simulating%2C+and+Di...

(3) Use AEL from AEL command console window which is similar to Cadence's CIW
Open a command line dialog (use Tools->Command Line... menu),
and enter "de_netlist();" at the "Command>>" prompt.

If you use (2) or (3), you can generate netlist without running simulation.

http://edocs.soco.agilent.com/display/ads2009/ADS+Simulator+Input+Syntax
http://www.edaboard.com/ftopic370016.html
http://www.edaboard.com/ftopic379430.html

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slb2010 New Member Offline Posts: 5	Re: ADS2009 Harmonic Balance. Reply #8 - Feb 3^rd, 2010, 3:56am Thank you.
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pancho_hideboo

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Re: ADS2009 Harmonic Balance.
Reply #9 - Feb 3^rd, 2010, 3:58am

slb2010 wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2010, 3:56am:

Thank you.

The followings are general notes.

�- Always describe vendor's name which you use as tool or simulator.
�- There are many simulators which have analyses called as PSS, PAC and Pnoise.
�- Describe in detail with using correct terminologies.
�- Warnigns are different from Errors.
�- ADS is not name of simulator.
�- There is no tool which name is Cadence.
�- Don't use Direct Plot of Cadence ADE blindly without knowing definition.
�- All gains in Direct Plot of Cadence ADE are "right", "true" and "practical" voltage gain.
�- Don't mix up Simulation with Post Processing. They are completely different phase.
�- MATLAB are different from Simulink.
�- Learn measurements using actual instruments. Not "EDA Tool Play

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