The Designer's Guide Community
Forum
Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register. Please follow the Forum guidelines.
Apr 27th, 2024, 5:09am
Pages: 1
Send Topic Print
Using nport in distortion analysis (Read 7704 times)
cmolsen
Junior Member
**
Offline



Posts: 10
NY
Using nport in distortion analysis
Mar 22nd, 2007, 10:42am
 
I have a pretty simple circuit that I want to do distortion analysis on using the nport s-parm approach.  I'm running spectre V6.1.0.190 standalone on Linux.

Circuit looks like this:  port -> bias-tee -> FET -> bias-tee -> port

The bias-tee (BT) is so far represented by some [simple] circuit and I want to see if by using an s-parm representation of the BT I can get similar distortion results as with the BT circuit.

For starters, I'm generating the s-parms from an sp analysis using the BT circuit.  Then I compare distortion results between the BT circuit and the BT nport  in a QPSS analysis w/HB=yes (interp=spline or linear - get same results).

Wrt to the first three harmonics (HD1, HD2 and HD3) the results very well.  But wrt the intermod products, IM3 and IM5, there's a few dB differences.  I'm operating well into the weakly nonlinear regime.

I got better results when the frequency spacing and max freq in the s-parm data are equal to the beat frequency and 3 times the highest fundamental freq, respectively. I specifically set fmax="highest freq in s-parm data" and fdelta="delta freq in s-parm data".  I also tried increasing the resolution by x10 and doubling the max freq in the s-parm data, but that resulted in even poorer IM3 and IM5 agreement.

I tried running QPPS w/HB=no and I was forced to use interp=rational. However the rational fitting fails. And so it does w/HB=yes.

I noticed in the sourcelink nportAN.pdf that it is recommended to NOT use rational unless it's absolutely necessary.  Rather do a PSS analysis where one can use spline/linear.  

I don't know what to make of this recommendation in view of the fact that QPSS seems to work OK with HB=yes, though I do get poor agreement wrt intermod products.

What is your recommendation how to do this simulation?

Michael
Back to top
 
 
View Profile   IP Logged
Tawna Wilsey
Junior Member
**
Offline



Posts: 11
Snohomish, WA
Re: Using nport in distortion analysis
Reply #1 - Apr 11th, 2007, 10:57am
 
I wanted to offer some very general comments about getting accurate results with the spectre nport component...  

Good s-parameter data is key to nport model stability and accuracy.
Common data problems that I see:
-No DC data available due to hardware limitation
-Not enough bandwidth due to hardware limitation
-Not enough frequency resolution
-Passivity not enforced in the data
-Noisy data caused by poor calibration and DUT contacts
Data interpolation is always needed for frequency-domain sampling
Data extrapolation is needed when DC data is not available, or when extra data bandwidth is needed. Extrapolation can be highly unreliable

So, how do you tell if your s-parameter data is reasonable???
-Does it have a dc point?  (or a reasonable amount of data close to dc?)
The DC point is essential, because without it Spectre cannot do the inverse Fourier
transform. If the DC point is not given, Spectre does extrapolation based on the first
two data points, assuming constant magnitude, and linear phase. This simple extrapolation
works well in some cases, but in general it is better to provide correct DC point. And of
course, if you just add an arbitrary DC point, you cannot expect accurate simulation results.
The DC point should be consistent with the rest of the data

-Are there enough data points to accurately model the DUT?  Use the Smith Chart to verify your data.
Is the S-parameter data (when plotted on the Smith Chart) smooth, rotating in a clockwise direction?  Or is it very choppy and piecewise-linear looking? Sufficient frequency resolution is needed to ensure the frequency-domain data is smooth, and can be safely interpolated

-When you are running your simulation, are you getting any warning messages about "passivity",
"risky extrapolation", etc. ?  Pay attention to any warning messages.

-If you are using the Spectre sp analysis to produce S-parameter data, always produce 3 times the bandwidth data needed.  I would generate s-parameters to 3X the highest fundamental frequency needed.  


A couple of notes on Linear vs Spline vs Rational interpolation:
Linear and spline
When the input data points are sufficient, linear and spline interpolation produce
comparable model accuracy. However, when the input data points are scarce,
linear interpolation is preferred to bound jumps between data points.

Rational interpolation
The rational model is not as robust and accurate as the convolution based model, particularly when the input data is insufficient, and the DUT is a multi-port system (with n> 4).
Use interpolation = rational only for analyses where interpolation = spline or linear is not supported.

For the nport option interpolation method = rational, a state-space model is synthesized to match the frequency domain data, and that model is simulated in the time domain along with the rest of the circuit. This approach can be problematic with non-passive data, and occasionally with elements that are high impedance at high frequency, such as inductors.

Best regards,

Tawna
Back to top
 
 

Tawna Wilsey
View Profile tawnaWilsey   IP Logged
Pages: 1
Send Topic Print
Copyright 2002-2024 Designer’s Guide Consulting, Inc. Designer’s Guide® is a registered trademark of Designer’s Guide Consulting, Inc. All rights reserved. Send comments or questions to editor@designers-guide.org. Consider submitting a paper or model.